Im giving a talk about Puppy and want input

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Im giving a talk about Puppy and want input

q5sys
I will be speaking at South East Linux Fest this year (about 90% certain of that), and i wanted to get some input from you guys.

Ill be talking about Puppy and how we do things.  IE; Woof, running from RAM, Layered FS, SFS packages, save files, etc.

First question i have for you guys:  Are there other things you think would be beneficial to touch on?  Other ways that we differ from the 'normal' way of doing things, that you think other people would find interesting.
Second question: When im talking about how people can get involved, what resources does everyone think i should point them to?  All of our resources are scattered all over the web, so where would you guys think would be the best place to point them to?
Third question: What are some long term or large goals that puppy has that we would want help on making happen?  Things like a full Qt Puppy, or a systemd based puppy, or ?  What are some stretch goals that would be awesome to have people to work on.
Fourth question: What are some of the short term goals that we really need people to work on now?
Lastly, anyone in the are going to be attending SELF?

-q5sys
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Re: Im giving a talk about Puppy and want input

Karl Godt
Administrator
No real Idea .

I run full installs .

Puppy code is always nasty and buggy .

Difficult to work on ( for me ) .

This squeeze on code is "gross failure" many times .

There are much too many tests missing if code does not work correctly .

Real programmers would get nightmares .

Each new Puppy I can spend several weeks on fixes .

Therefore am running  4.3.x derivates .


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Re: Im giving a talk about Puppy and want input

bigpup
In reply to this post by q5sys
For a good place to find the most stuff and get a understanding of Puppy.
Good place to get started.
The forum.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/

This would be a good web site to show.
http://puppylinux.com/index.html

Point out that Puppy is really a true open operating system.
About the only real control is just do something that is useful.
Code a new program.
Fix code in a program.
Test a Puppy version.
Test a new program.
Make a new version of Puppy.
Help others with fixing problems.
Help others understand how to do things.
Basically do what you want to do, when you want to do it, and for the most part how you want to do it.

Who works on Puppy?
Anyone and everyone from all over the world.

A person in Japan writes code on how Puppy saves data.
A person in America tests it and gives feedback on how it works and any bugs they find.
A person in France figures out a code fix for the bug that was found.
A person in Australia verifies the fix code works.
The original program developer changes his code to include the code fix.
A person in Argentina thinks he has a way to improve the program code to make it work faster or better.
A person in England decides it is time for a new version of Puppy, so he builds one and assumes the role of the version developer.

That is Puppy.  


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Re: Im giving a talk about Puppy and want input

jamesbond3142
In reply to this post by q5sys
Good to hear from you again :)

On Wed, 4 Jun 2014 03:14:42 -0700 (PDT)
"q5sys [via woof-CE]" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> First question i have for you guys:  Are there other things you think would
> be beneficial to touch on?  Other ways that we differ from the 'normal' way
> of doing things, that you think other people would find interesting.

Well, in addition to the woof/ram/layer fs, etc, talk about the benefits that these brings.
What good is running from RAM?
What good is running with layered filesystem? Talk about the downsides too.
And may be cover a little bit on the competition (e.g slax) - and which way (you think) puppy is better, in what way slax is better.
Then draw a conclusion (or as the audience to draw the conclusion themselves).

> Second question: When im talking about how people can get involved, what
> resources does everyone think i should point them to?  All of our resources
> are scattered all over the web, so where would you guys think would be the
> best place to point them to?

I thought you had an answer for that (LOL) - where is it? where is it??? (LOL)
I'm still waiting :)

Seriously - direct them to the wiki first, then to the forum.

> Third question: What are some long term or large goals that puppy has that
> we would want help on making happen?  Things like a full Qt Puppy, or a
> systemd based puppy, or ?  What are some stretch goals that would be awesome
> to have people to work on.

Since Barry has stepped down, the long term goals are no longer set by one person.

The goal will depend on the community. Really. At this point, there is no governance of any sort - all we have is "Woof-CE", the repository that holds Woof2 (the build system) and Puppy base code. We have gatekeepers of what can go into Woof-CE, but we don't have a council or a committee to tell people what to do.

The community (actually, individuals), comes out with ideas, got that tested by the community, once it is mature/good enough, it will go into Woof-CE. So how long the goal can be, how far the sights can be set, it really depends on the community. If someone thinks that Qt Puppy is cool, then that someone will go and do it. If he needs help, he can rally the community for help; I'm sure plenty will lend their hand. Same with systemd puppy, or any other puppy. But just saying "I want a Qt Puppy" (with the unspoken words of " --- and you do that for me while I'm sitting here twiddlig my thumbs") aren't gonna work.

So - I'll leave the answer to the puppy community leaders (the ones with their sleeves already up, with their hands already dirty with on-going puppy projects). For me, I just published a build system - (hopefully easier) alternative to Woof - to build Puppy from Ubuntu/Debian - so that others can be more motivated to build and releases more puppies, all variety of them.

> Fourth question: What are some of the short term goals that we really need
> people to work on now?

I'll leave this to the people who are actually involved with Puppy development.

Mavrothal and Mick are probably the best people to reply to this question, and probably 666philb (currently building Trusty Tahr Puppy) or stemsee (building some other kind of puppy - I can't recall). Or perhaps to Iguleder, who is building an extremely small, all-static-binary puppy. I may have missed others, my apology. But not all of them are in this mailing list, they only communicate through the forum.

> Lastly, anyone in the are going to be attending SELF?

I were in the US, I might.
Since I'm not ... unless I can find a sponsor to fly me there, the probably not :)
Anyone? :)

cheers!
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Re: Im giving a talk about Puppy and want input

q5sys
Thanks for the input guys.

jamesbond3142 wrote
> Second question: When im talking about how people can get involved, what
> resources does everyone think i should point them to?  All of our resources
> are scattered all over the web, so where would you guys think would be the
> best place to point them to?

I thought you had an answer for that (LOL) - where is it? where is it??? (LOL)
I'm still waiting :)


Seriously - direct them to the wiki first, then to the forum.
Oh I still want to.  But I've been waiting to hear back from a few others before making a final decision.  No point in me spending a few thousand on web development to create a full featured site for Puppy if no one agrees its a good plan and would be willing to use it.

I'd post publicly here about it to get input... but Im kinda worried if word got back to M*rga, that I'd end up getting myself banned. lol
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Re: Im giving a talk about Puppy and want input

stemsee
In reply to this post by q5sys
Hi everyone I am stemsee otherwise known as Marcos.  
 
I will try to answer your questions generally 'why puppy?' might be a good title. Firstly variety!  I love it when someone releases an individualistic puppy distro, like carolina, or lazy, or DebiandDog, or FatDog64 and Lighthouse64 Mariner, it gives me hope of finding the perfect os for me.  Puplets pop up from everywhere without warning or press coverage.  I booted Lighthouse 601 at my CELTa training course, on my laptop linked to overhead projector -  all international students oohed and ahhred! It wasn't windows ... what was it? How did it boot so fast!  That desktop looked heavenly! It was like a custom tardis had appeared. I seemed to them as Dr Who - I loved it.  I am a musician, I record original compositions on computer, not dedicated multitrack hardware, because of 1. cost (linux is free) 2. flexibility (change software) 3. multi-use (after recording watch a movie, chat on skype or QQ, check my email, annoy other developers etc.  Why not windows or ubuntu studio, or puredyne, or musix or studio64?  Ubuntu studio, Avlinux, Puredyne, Studio64 all broke with minimal customisation changes/updates, repeatedly, all were troublesome to interact with (root priveleges), reliance on passwords, all were too tighty pieced together for my wants.  Puppy has been unbreakable for me!  Boots fast. Does what I want without arguments! Is extremely portable.  Really easy going. No viruses.  No Activation.  The biggest issues I have had were kernels and hardware support.  Why was no one in the community producing up to date kernels with their distros? Because they all have old computers!  I have a core i3 8GB ram 500GB hdd laptop!  Why do they not want me to get the full use and value of my hardware?  Because it was laid down in the lore, small, fast but compatible with old computers, there is no place for powerful hardware in puppy!  I challenge that notion, and produce full featured pups which boot to ram on the newest kernels with maximum hardware support, in case I end up in a situation out of a Jason Bourne movie and I have only my usb stick to boot on an ATM. What else attracts me to puppy is that it is based on the big boys of linux, Ubuntu, Debian, Slackware, Fedora - no, not Fedora?  Why not? Is it Red Hat phobia or systemd? Do the devs not know that Fedora and Userful provide ootb automatic usb multi-seat configuration?  20 people on one box with 20 monitors usb keyboards and mice.  This is what developing countries need, for classrooms, and for business startups.  This is what I want to develope.  Microsoft has Multi-point server 2011/12, It costs a full licence per seat! I want multi-seat on puppy because it will be smaller and faster and work on older hardware.  But I want it my way, pseudo-mulltiseat, with patched xinput for map-inputdevice to screen! But Xinput doesn't work on puppy linux, except Lighthouse64, which with an older kernel, and no host system compatibility meaning either compiling new stuff or using already existent older versions of apps, looked like the end of the race, until woof-next and kernel-kit-ng gave me hope of building the perfect os for me!  Also I wanted to record on my atom tablet, but puppy although built from ubuntu isn't really suitable for touch interfaces, no right click, pinch to zoom, and default mouse acceleration is set to 2, meaning the cursor races ahead at a ratio of 2:1 of your finger! This all took some time to find out! It took two years for an answer to my question, ''why doesn't xinput work on puppy?''! And new questions arise, how will Wayland or mir work? Puppy is an evolving animal, making its way through life, developing into a useful and friendly tool, that gets serious work done, without being too serious. It carries heavy hardware to new heights without being heavy.  It moulds to your computing lifestyle, more easily and cheaply than any other system I know. And it is number ten on Distrowatch.com's page hit ranking chart!  Puppy linux is cute.  And it's future will be as diverse as the competition's.
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Re: Im giving a talk about Puppy and want input

mavrothal
In reply to this post by q5sys
> How do we do things
Any way we like!
Seriously!
I think that one of the strongest point of puppy, is that is an "amateur" OS. One that is build mostly by "users" as oppose to "developers".
One that pays more attention to oob functionality, ease of use for the average Joe, cautious of resource waste (and ultimately the environment), than the "latest and greatest". That's why if you ask a user is likely to tell you that is "super" while a developer will tell you that "sucks"!
I think that this is because there is much more "dog food eating" in puppy than any other Linux. So a lot of functionality has been added with ugly hacks :-o
But is the open development scheme, the forum, the "everything goes" mentality, that allows even a noobe to become a "developer" after a couple of months.

I think that puppy is probably the most characteristic case of "very low floor - no ceiling" in Linux (I do not know if I can stress this enough).

So where to from here? Wherever this community goes. Jamesbond tries to make the "floor" even lower, stemsee is trying to check if indeed there is "no ceiling", iguleder wants to make something like good-old DSL only better, modern and puppy-like  while Micko/Phil is adding his talent to everybody else's  input and/or requests/bug reports to produce yet another outstanding puppy for the average Joe.
Hopefully (the many) old-timers currently in the sidelines and the newcomers that you'll allure to puppy ;) will get it at the next level.
Hey, it may even reach #9 in distrowatch :-P

> how people can get involved.
Depends what they want to do. Start by using puppy, find something you do not like fix/change it and share it with the others. (forum)
Or make your own Fedora puppy (This list/woofCE at github/Forum)
Or change how puppy is build (woofCE at github)
Or just fix some open bugs (woofCE issues at github)
Or…
I do not think that any constructive input of any kind was ignored. So get involved anyway you like!

> What are some long term or large goals
Have enough people involved to be able to have long term or large goals! (because indeed in the current state of involvement long or large goals would sound like a joke).

> What are some of the short term goals
Squash as many bugs as possible for the next puppy x86/x86_64 release
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Re: Im giving a talk about Puppy and want input

q5sys
The talk went well. I kinda felt like I was repeating myself alot, but overall everyone seemed to really enjoy it.  Richard Hipp (the guy who created SQLite) was there for my talk and talked to me for like an hour after.  He said he really enjoyed it, so I guess it wasnt bad.  He was really interested in how Puppy worked with AUFS and running in RAM.

The session was recorded, so when its uploaded I'll post it here.  I'd really like if you all could give me input on it.  Correct me where I'm wrong, give me suggestions on where I can improve.  What other information I should add, etc.
I'm thinking of submitting to give the talk at Ohio Linux Fest, and I'd really appreciate you guys helping me make it better.  
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Long Term goal? More international Language Support? Like Indian 13 Dialects?

Wb7odyFred
Vicmz,  has done great support for Spanish and Portugese (Brazilian) languages using MoManager application to make the Local Language Packs for puppy Linux varieties.

I would like to see more marketing support of the USB Flash Drive booting ability of Puppy Linux for African, Asian, and Indian countries.   If your poor,  you might only be able to afford a USB Flash drive to
use occasionally in a community computer.  (ie the individual can't afford the full computer, but might afford only the USB Flash drive to keep his/her personal environment & data.)   Marketing to organize and encourage creating the Local Lanugage packages for other languages than english.   13 Indian language dialects come to mind for an American like me,  but what do I know? (nothing :>)

Http://linuxliveusb.com  and http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/  applications for installing a linux .ISO image file to a USB Flash Drive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNetbootin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tools_to_create_Live_USB_systems
http://voting-in-rural-america.blogspot.com/2013/07/4-gui-tools-to-use-under-windows-to.html
http://rufus.akeo.ie/   Here is RUFUS 1.4.9 and Windows program to create a bootable USB drive.

Will be looking for your SELF talk on Video soon, Q5sys.
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Re: Long Term goal? More international Language Support? Like Indian 13 Dialects?

stemsee
SARDU is the ultimate tool for creating usb sticks with exceptional functionality, reliability, portability, incorruptibility and usability!
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Re: Im giving a talk about Puppy and want input

q5sys
In reply to this post by q5sys
Ok so its about a year late, but the South East Linux Coordinator finally posted the talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymBQPBEVgQI

I'm planning on giving the talk again this year where I go into more detail and correct any errors that I made. I'm sure there's a few things I got wrong just from being nervous about giving my first talk... and things that I misunderstood about Puppy.  

So please give me your input and let me know what I can do to improve/fix the talk.

Thanks guys!
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Re: Im giving a talk about Puppy and want input

jamesbond3142
I will watch the video first.

But please be aware that "Bindee" is a troll, and he has a few aliases: "Wilbert", "Pavan" (blocked by Flash already), "Abdurrahman", "Yoni", "tomhewitt", and the most recent one is "Kai". So ignore him.

cheers!

On Sun, 17 May 2015 17:36:36 -0700 (MST)
"q5sys [via woof-CE]" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> Ok so its about a year late, but the South East Linux Coordinator finally
> posted the talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymBQPBEVgQI
>
> I'm planning on giving the talk again this year where I go into more detail
> and correct any errors that I made. I'm sure there's a few things I got
> wrong just from being nervous about giving my first talk... and things that
> I misunderstood about Puppy.  
>
> So please give me your input and let me know what I can do to improve/fix
> the talk.
>
> Thanks guys!
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
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> To start a new topic under woof-CE, email [hidden email]
> To unsubscribe from woof-CE, visit
James B <
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