GTK1 PPM

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GTK1 PPM

iguleder
Yo!

Currently, the independent core package set I'm working on includes all core daemons, a udev replacement, an init replacement, a X server (~1 MB), GTK1, JWM (with libXft support) and some fonts. Everything is linked statically, boots, recognizes all hardware and even JWM works just fine. I got emelFM to run on this thing, so it's time to populate the desktop with applications!

I have an idea - a GTK1 frontend to PPM, equivalent to today's gtkdialog one, but compiled and therefore lighter. With this, we could build a "TinyCore Puppy" - a tiny Puppy that boots into a graphical desktop with a GUI package manager. GTK2 doesn't work on this X server and it's too big, so GTK1 is the way to go IMHO.

Any thoughts? Ideas?

Cheers,
Dima
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Re: GTK1 PPM

mavrothal
Sound interesting, but...
One key element in any "modern" OS is handling the web.
I was wondering which browsers can still be build against gtk1?
I also think that most of the newer communications, office, media etc applications do not build against gtk1.
TC is using fltk for their minimal UX but for anything else gtk2 and lately 3, is a dependency.
The other "problem" with TC-puppy is that you'll need a huge savefile, unless you go with multiple SFSs as TC does (or LayZ-pup).
Now if you do all these, what the "competitive advantage" over TC will actually be?

The appealing features of puppy is the very good OOB experience, the minimal system requirements and the fairly wide hardware compatibility. The OOB experience with such a minimal systems is likely to be very poor. Even TC now provides a beefed-up version with some basic apps and infrastructure included because their 6/10MB iso was only for the very few.

So is interesting and certainly challenging but I'm not so sure will serv as a good base for puppy (till I see a running system of course ;-D)

The PPM part though (not the gtk1 bit) is certainly something that puppy needs to improve upon ;)...

My $0.02
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Re: GTK1 PPM

iguleder
mavrothal wrote
Sound interesting, but...
One key element in any "modern" OS is handling the web.
I was wondering which browsers can still be build against gtk1?
I want to form a very basic desktop, so we can build a "barebones", modular Puppy - if you want the "full" X, you have the option to install it - otherwise, you remain with a basic desktop enough for running a terminal emulator, text editing and file management.

I want it to be minimalistic to the extreme, so it won't include Firefox, Chrome, Opera, etc'.

mavrothal wrote
I also think that most of the newer communications, office, media etc applications do not build against gtk1.
As I said - that's not my goal.

mavrothal wrote
TC is using fltk for their minimal UX but for anything else gtk2 and lately 3, is a dependency.
Yep, but FTLK is written in C++ and therefore requires the big libstdc++ - currently, all packages are written in C. That's why I chose GTK1.

mavrothal wrote
The other "problem" with TC-puppy is that you'll need a huge savefile, unless you go with multiple SFSs as TC does (or LayZ-pup).
No need for a big save file if you use SFSs.

mavrothal wrote
Now if you do all these, what the "competitive advantage" over TC will actually be?
Everything Puppy has that TC doesn't - installation types (full/fruglal), good support for old hardware, graphical wizards, and the community.

mavrothal wrote
The appealing features of puppy is the very good OOB experience, the minimal system requirements and the fairly wide hardware compatibility. The OOB experience with such a minimal systems is likely to be very poor. Even TC now provides a beefed-up version with some basic apps and infrastructure included because their 6/10MB iso was only for the very few.
Nope - they have an ISO with nothing but basic configuration tools, so you can install your favorite packages (equivalent to SFSs). I want to build a Puppy with a GTK1-based package manage to compete with this sector - tiny, modular "live" distros; not a "vanilla" Puppy with a good OOB experience.

mavrothal wrote
So is interesting and certainly challenging
Yes, it is!

mavrothal wrote
but I'm not so sure will serv as a good base for puppy (till I see a running system of course ;-D)
Currently, it boots, recognizes all hardware and achieves a root shell - I ran the X server with JWM through chroot, though. Once my burnt laptop is back (Lenovo are fixin' it), I'll build an image with automatic startup of X.

mavrothal wrote
The PPM part though (not the gtk1 bit) is certainly something that puppy needs to improve upon ;)...
I was thinking, maybe we should write a library which acts as a glue layer between GTK1 and GTK3. This could make it easy to convert gtkdialog applications to compiled ones that work across all puppies (imagine, a GTK1 static build for older versions and a dynamic GTK3 build for current ones).
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Re: GTK1 PPM

Karl Godt
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In reply to this post by iguleder
Actually GTK-1 works better for me on some applications .

I like the Idea .  

But that would likely need it's own master repository ~ likely at https://github.com/iguleder

I can understand mav that he does not want to mix his repo too much with other initiatives ,
since git can be very annoying while resetting branches , ie it tends to loose its HEAD for me   


Me for myself while experimenting with upgrading GTK-2 on Puppy-4.3 with --prefix=/usr/gtk also put in GTK-1 there .

GTK-1.2.10 does not compile straight for me, needs some adjustments to some LOG_ lines in several *.c files .
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